Sh'ma b'kolah(listen to her voice):Ophir BenSheetreet
I think that Ophir Ben Sheetreet has a gorgeous voice, and is a credit to her family and to her Dati L'Umi/Religious Zionist community. You can hear her in the video posted by DovBear here, and also in the video posted on the Jewish Daily Forward here. From the Forward: "Ophir has said that in her family it was never considered a sin to sing in front of men."
Tuesday, February 12, 2013 update:
Here are the lyrics to the song that Ophir Ben Sheetrit sang on "The Voice."
Sunday, December 22, 2013 update:
The video link on DovBear's blog doesn't seem to be available anymore, so let's go straight to YouTube.
Note to self--Just to make future searches easier, I'm listing various transliterations that I've seen, and any others that I can think of, of this young lady's name: Ophir Ben Shitrit, Ophir Ben Shetreet, Ofir Ben Shitrit, Ofir Ben Shetreet, Shetrit, Sheetrit, Ofir Ben-Shitrit.
Tuesday, February 12, 2013 update:
Here are the lyrics to the song that Ophir Ben Sheetrit sang on "The Voice."
Sunday, December 22, 2013 update:
The video link on DovBear's blog doesn't seem to be available anymore, so let's go straight to YouTube.
Note to self--Just to make future searches easier, I'm listing various transliterations that I've seen, and any others that I can think of, of this young lady's name: Ophir Ben Shitrit, Ophir Ben Shetreet, Ofir Ben Shitrit, Ofir Ben Shetreet, Shetrit, Sheetrit, Ofir Ben-Shitrit.
Labels: Kol Isha
posted by Shira Salamone at 11:26 AM
15 Comments:
Yeah, but her home isn't the issue. The school's rules are. Presumably going to a religious school this was going to come up. Did she ask them if it contravened their rules? If she didn't, why not? Was she thinking they'd say "Oh well, what's done is done"? And if they did and they warned her and she did it anyway, what does that really say about her?
Repeat after me: "I AM NOT ORTHODOX. I WILL STOP BASHING THINGS I NEITHER UNDERSTAND NOR PARTICIPATE IN."
You don't have a dog in this fight. Stay out of it. I don't necessarily disagree with you (although I doubt I agree with you) but enough. When you become a stakeholder, you have a voice. Until then, butt out.
Garnel, if I uderstand what I've read correctly, Ophir's parents discussed the matter with her school in advance, and agreed to a two-week suspension. The family showed respect for the school's rules while following their own family's hashkafah/religious approach on this matter.
JDub, *I'm* not Orthodox, but DovBear is, and *he's* the one who posted the video.
"You don't have a dog in this fight."
First of all, I have two Israeli nieces who might have had to deal with chayalim/(male) soldiers walking out on them, had their Tzahal/IDF/Israel Defense Force service involved singing in the Entertainment Corps (or whatever it's called). So I *do* have a dog in this fight.
Second, what makes you think that issues affecting other women are no concern of mine? Should I refrain from expressing an opinion regarding equal pay for equal work just because because that issue has never affected me?
DovBear is a professional malcontent. I've yet to read anything he says or does that is anything other than a major rant about anything. And your comment of "Amen" doesn't let you get away with blaming DB for this.
As to your nieces, so what? Tzahal (and Israeli society) is ridiculous in how it doesn't exhibit the least sensitivity to its religious soldiers. And quite frankly, isn't it better that the soldiers walked out rather than said your nieces shouldn't have sung?
And this isn't an issue affecting other women. I'm sorry, but for you to equate a religious rule saying that women shouldn't sing in front of men (or, more correctly, that men shouldn't listen to women singing) to equal pay for equal work (another BS argument -- there is almost none of that going on these days) proves to me that you're no longer worth my time here.
" . . . isn't it better that the soldiers walked out rather than said your nieces shouldn't have sung?"
I suppose that is an improvement. For the record, I once sang in a choir at a community-wide Yom HaAtzmaut celebration. When it came time for us to perform, one of the local Orthodox rabbis announced that Maariv would take place in another room. You never saw a room empty out so quickly. That wasn't a particularly pleasant experience for me, especially since we'd spent some time rehearsing, but I suppose it was better than having the choir banned from the program.
"DovBear is a professional malcontent." I suppose that you'd say the same about me. Personally, I think that puts me in good company. :) But I'll delete the "Amen!" I hope you'll continue to read and comment here.
I HAVE BEEN TEACHING 8TH GRADERS ON THIS TOPIC THE PAST WEEK. DOES ANYONE HAVE A LINK TO THE ACTUAL CONTROVERSIAL PERFORMANCE ON" THE VOICE"? I SAW IT ONCE , BUT CANT GET IT AGAIN. I WONDER IF IT HAS BEEN PULLED FROM THE WEB? FINDING FEMINIST OBJECTIONS TO KOL ISHAH WAS EASY. I WANTED TO FIND A MAN WHO WOULD COME OUT AND BE OFFENDED BY THE IDEA THAT THEY ARE UNABLE TO CONTROL THEIR IMPULSES, OR THAT THEIR SPIRITUAL SELF CANT OVERRIDE THEIR ANIMAL INSTINCTS. I DID FIND AN EXCELLENT ARTICLE IN THE WASHINGTON JEWISH WEEK BY RABBI HERZFELD. HE DISCUSSES THE MESSAGE WE ARE SENDING TO GIRLS ABOUT STIFLING THEIR SPIRITUALITY AND POSSIBLY TURNING THEM AWAY FROM JUDAISM BY SILENCING THEM. THE ISSUE IS THE CONTEXT AND PLACE OF SONG, NOT THE SINGING THEMSELVES. HE DOES ADDRESS THE MESSAGE TO BOYS AS WELL. re
Suzin, best of luck with the teaching.
You can see the video where I first saw it, which is on DovBear's blog. Click on the first link in the first paragraph of this post.
"First of all, I have two Israeli nieces who might have had to deal with chayalim/(male) soldiers walking out on them, had their Tzahal/IDF/Israel Defense Force service involved singing in the Entertainment Corps (or whatever it's called). So I *do* have a dog in this fight."
Some members of the IDF believe their religious obligations include them leaving the room when a woman is singing.
What are you suggesting should be done:
1. Prohibit women singing to avoid ANY issues, you'd scream Talibanization and be right.
2. Prohibit IDF soldiers who would attend the rest of the event from entering the event? That would have made for better press, but that would absolutely violate their religious freedoms, no? I mean, I attend secular events with non-Kosher food all the time, I don't eat. By your logic, I shouldn't be allowed to go because my not eating non-Kosher food would be offensive to the caterers, that's ridiculous.
3. Court martial the IDF soldiers for not being in the room. That's leftwing Talibanization, and equally outrageous.
I think that people complaining about that event are simply anti-Orthodox bigots, Secretary Clinton included. People have a right to their religious views, they don't have the right to push them on others.
I can attend outdoor functions with a pig roast and not participate. And I resent the implication that I should be thrown out of the events.
The IDF AND the Dati Leumi soldiers both behaved perfectly reasonable, and anti-Orthodox bigots have used this as a rallying cry to persecute a religious minority, and make no mistake, Dati Leumi are a distinct religious minority in Israel.
When I attended an event a few weeks ago, a non-denomination prayer was said as part of the process. They asked everyone to stand. During this prayer, myself and the other Orthodox Jewish participants stood respectfully, did not remove our hats or bow our heads. Had the prayer been of a nature we felt would couldn't be there (say it was a Polygamous Hindu Ceremony, or a Jews for Jesus service, or something similar), I would have walked out for the prayer and resumed.
Under your logic, the fact that I couldn't participate in that "service" would prohibit me from attending the event. That is outright bigotry.
You're NOT an Orthodox Jew. When you demand Orthodox Jews NOT behave a certain way, you're doing it as an outsider. Please realize that some of your issues are coming across as seriously bigoted.
Miami Al, sorry for the delay. Work and an out-of-town weekend intervened.
"What are you suggesting should be done:
1. Prohibit women singing to avoid ANY issues, you'd scream Talibanization and be right.
2. Prohibit IDF soldiers who would attend the rest of the event from entering the event? That would have made for better press, but that would absolutely violate their religious freedoms, no? I mean, I attend secular events with non-Kosher food all the time, I don't eat. By your logic, I shouldn't be allowed to go because my not eating non-Kosher food would be offensive to the caterers, that's ridiculous.
3. Court martial the IDF soldiers for not being in the room. That's leftwing Talibanization, and equally outrageous."
You're right on all the above counts.
"I think that people complaining about that event are simply anti-Orthodox bigots, Secretary Clinton included. People have a right to their religious views, they don't have the right to push them on others.
. . .
You're NOT an Orthodox Jew. When you demand Orthodox Jews NOT behave a certain way, you're doing it as an outsider. Please realize that some of your issues are coming across as seriously bigoted."
I've never thought of myself as an anti-Orthodox bigot. I am truly sorry and upset that I'm coming across as seriously bigoted.
I am reminded of a recent shiur/lecture given by Rabbi Ethan Tucker at Mechon Hadar regarding the difficult of maintaining a reasonable balancing act between halachah/Jewish religious law and kavod ha-b'riyot/respect for G-d creatures.
I already mentioned, in a previous comment, that I'd once been walked out on (en masse) when singing in a choir at a community-wide Yom HaAtzmaut celebration. I completely forgot, because it happened so many years ago and because the gentleman is long deceased, that one of our more-traditional male congregants used to walk out every time a woman chanted a haftarah, so I had the dubious privilege of watching him walk out on me on numerous occasions. It was not a pleasant experience. It's never a pleasant experience to see anyone walk out on me, and I think it reasonable to assume that I'm not alone in feeling that way.
So how do we reconcile such different perspectives? On the one hand, I think it would be the height of overreaction to court-martial a male soldier for walking out on a singing female. On the other hand, based on personal experience, I can't pretend that this attempt to observe Jewish law has no effect on those being walked out on. How would *you* (or any of my other) readers) suggest that we reconcile halachah with kavod ha-b'riyot in the case of kol ishah in a way that's both respectful of halachah and sensitive to human feelings?
>> that one of our more-traditional male congregants used to walk out every time a woman chanted a haftarah, so I had the dubious privilege of watching him walk out on me on numerous occasions. It was not a pleasant experience. <<
And there's the problem. It's not about you. If it was, instead of walking out, he could have heckled you, insulted you or some other kind of public scene. It was a matter of his personal religious convictions. There is a young woman in our conservative congregation, graduating from a modern orthodox day school this year, who will not enter the sanctuary if a woman is leyning or leading davening, even if it is one of her friends. This is her decision, and not a reflection on the choices made by others. Contrary to what appears to be popular belief, the same rules that apply in situations governed by the US Constitution do not necessarily apply to our religious activities. If you expect people to tolerate your choices, you're going to have to extend the same consideration to them.
"It's not about you. If it was, instead of walking out, he could have heckled you, insulted you or some other kind of public scene. It was a matter of his personal religious convictions."
Anon., thanks for showing my fellow congregant's actions in a different light. That does mitigate an unpleasant experience somewhat.
"If you expect people to tolerate your choices, you're going to have to extend the same consideration to them."
Well said. I'm going to have to give this subject more thought.
"I once sang in a choir at a community-wide Yom HaAtzmaut celebration. When it came time for us to perform, one of the local Orthodox rabbis announced that Maariv would take place in another room. You never saw a room empty out so quickly."
Orthodox Judaism maintains that men cannot listen to women sing. If you want to include Orthodox Jews in community events, you have two choices:
A. Make the entire event cater to Orthodox interpretations of Jewish Law
B. Accept that at certain portions, Orthodox Jews may not participate.
Likewise, if at a community wide event, one called for communal prayer and put up a mechitza, I would expect the Reform Jews to walk out/not participate.
We all have religious convictions, and we are entitled to have them respected, but not entitled to have them catered to. You are entitled to believe that it is acceptable to sing in mixed company, but they are entitled to believe that they shouldn't listen to her.
"We all have religious convictions, and we are entitled to have them respected, but not entitled to have them catered to."
This comment thread may not have been one of the most pleasant conversations I've ever had, but it has been very informative and helpful, and has persuaded me to reconsider my attitude and/or reaction to differences of hashkafah/religious perspective and the resulting actions.
Hi Would you be able to post lyrics to the song Ofir sang for Shlomi Shabat?
I wish I could, but, unfortunately, neither my spoken-Hebrew comprehension nor my (nearly-non-existent) knowledge of piyutim/religious poems is sufficient to the task. :(
If anyone with a better understanding of Hebrew and/or piyutim would like to try her or his hand at translating that piyut, I would certainly appreciate your efforts. You can listen to Ofir sing the piyut by clicking on the first link in this post and fast-forwarding to around the 3 minutes and 18 seconds (3:18) mark, give or take.
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